First let me start by stating that I am new to boat restoration. I have years of experience in woodworking and refinishing (antiques, new furniture, cabinetry, etc..) and wood construction (homes, outdoor furniture, outbuildings, etc...) so I am not greenhorn when it comes to wood. However in my past experience I have either never had to worry about water intrusion or did everything possible to prevent it. 
I just purchased my first wooden boat and want to restore it correctly, not so it will be a show winner or trailer queen, but so the wife and I can enjoy it for years to come. So I am more than willing to invest the time up front to do it correctly, but don't look forward to redoing the same repair over and over. That all being said I have diligently started searching all the wooden boat online forums, such as this one, and reading all the books I can get my hands on covering this topic. And at this point I must say I feel I know less today than then when I started!
My first step will be to yank the engine and flip the boat over to restore the bottom (original ’58 CC Sportsman bottom) so I started researching bottom restoration. First I discovered there are two divided camps concerning the use of: 1) Epoxy, 2) 3M 5200 type products and 3) Fiberglass. Those that say these products are lifesavers and those that claim they are the work of the devil! And its appears very few folks fall in-between these two camps.
It seems the experts – those that have written books and are major contributors to online sites – all use either Modified Traditional Bottoms or West System Bottom. No one but the purest of the purist suggest a fully Traditional Bottom. But from the online forums and the actual boat owners, I read posting after posting of how bad the West System is and how it is used by only those looking for a quick temporary fix or “mop and glowers” looking for a quick turn around on their investment. And also how 3M 5200 (and all of its competitors) is horrible and should never be used for anything involving wood-in-water. Epoxy also seems to be used equally by all experts and condemned by the majority of boat owners! Yikes – who do I trust? I just want a semi-permanent long lasting good looking bottom on my boat!
The other topic of confusion (and I apologize for this posting’s length) is the practice of REPLACING all bottom wood – plywood, planking and all, even if it is not rotted and is still sound! I was trained as a woodworker that restoration was the restoring of old usable wood, not replacing it – that’s called reproducing, or in this forum, boat building. Granted there is noting wrong with using fresh new wood in place of old sound, wood ( I will not get into the argument of superior old growth timber versus today’s “plant, cut and ship” lumber), but you can’t call that restoration. Why are the experts so pro-replacement of bottom planking? Especially if the plywood bottom and all the chemicals they suggest to pour over it are doing 90% of the work. Again who is a “boat virgin” to believe?
I need a boat restoration champion to follow!
I just purchased my first wooden boat and want to restore it correctly, not so it will be a show winner or trailer queen, but so the wife and I can enjoy it for years to come. So I am more than willing to invest the time up front to do it correctly, but don't look forward to redoing the same repair over and over. That all being said I have diligently started searching all the wooden boat online forums, such as this one, and reading all the books I can get my hands on covering this topic. And at this point I must say I feel I know less today than then when I started!
My first step will be to yank the engine and flip the boat over to restore the bottom (original ’58 CC Sportsman bottom) so I started researching bottom restoration. First I discovered there are two divided camps concerning the use of: 1) Epoxy, 2) 3M 5200 type products and 3) Fiberglass. Those that say these products are lifesavers and those that claim they are the work of the devil! And its appears very few folks fall in-between these two camps.
It seems the experts – those that have written books and are major contributors to online sites – all use either Modified Traditional Bottoms or West System Bottom. No one but the purest of the purist suggest a fully Traditional Bottom. But from the online forums and the actual boat owners, I read posting after posting of how bad the West System is and how it is used by only those looking for a quick temporary fix or “mop and glowers” looking for a quick turn around on their investment. And also how 3M 5200 (and all of its competitors) is horrible and should never be used for anything involving wood-in-water. Epoxy also seems to be used equally by all experts and condemned by the majority of boat owners! Yikes – who do I trust? I just want a semi-permanent long lasting good looking bottom on my boat!
The other topic of confusion (and I apologize for this posting’s length) is the practice of REPLACING all bottom wood – plywood, planking and all, even if it is not rotted and is still sound! I was trained as a woodworker that restoration was the restoring of old usable wood, not replacing it – that’s called reproducing, or in this forum, boat building. Granted there is noting wrong with using fresh new wood in place of old sound, wood ( I will not get into the argument of superior old growth timber versus today’s “plant, cut and ship” lumber), but you can’t call that restoration. Why are the experts so pro-replacement of bottom planking? Especially if the plywood bottom and all the chemicals they suggest to pour over it are doing 90% of the work. Again who is a “boat virgin” to believe?
I need a boat restoration champion to follow!
Well, I'm by no means an expert but I might be able to offer some insites. As far as replacing bottom boards goes, yeah, I would replace a whole length or panel even if just part of it is rotted. The bottom takes a pounding from the water ( and sometimes from the sand, rocks or whatever) and the less number of joints, the better. More joints means more chances of flexure and therefore more chances of developing a leak. You can, of course, scarf joints on the bottom (usually, on any plywood bottom over 8' long, you have to scarf anyway) but it is sometimes difficult to scarf the board that's already attached to the bottom. I'm not too familiar with the 3M product line but I thought that 5400 was a semi permanent adhesive. Great for bedding fittings or possibly using to attach a board to the ribs before fastening but I'm not sure I would trust it all by itself. Of course, I could be totally wrong. Ah epoxy. The great 60 minute cure-all. I find it great as long as there is some 'tooth' on the bottom for it to adhere to and you are not looking for something permanent ( if there is any such thing on a boat). It is a pain in the butt to repair but it will get you out on the water quicker. Al that being said, I prefer carvel planking myself. I know that it is a lot of hard work and can be messy to repair, but I can repair it just about anywhere in the world without having to don a Hazmat suit and respirator. To each, their own. Frank
ReplyDeleteHey there Daddio, Can you tell us more about the ’58 CC Sportsman you are restoring? Are you a card carrying member of the ACBS? You said; "not so it will be a show winner or trailer queen" however, Do you plan to show your boat. What is the current condition of the boat and hull? When was it last in the water? Can you repair it cosmeticly and get out on the water and enjoy it? You are right, the camps are divided. The answer can be found in "what's best for the boat" and what you are more comfortable with. All the camps are correct and all of them can be the "work of the devil" if not used correctly. My advice is incomplete with out additional information, however, lets get you on the water enjoying your boat as soon as possible and at the least expense of time and money. With that, I ask again, can you repair it cosmeticly and get out on the water and enjoy it? It is spring, there is allways time to do a full restoration at a later date. In an attempt to answer some of your questions, lets start with "worry about water intrusion". "Traditional" wood boats/bottoms are supposed to have water in them. They all leak, there supposed to. The water needs to be there in order for the hull to swell up and leak less. This is why fiberglass on the bottom of a traditional wood boat is bad. Just like your house it needs to breath in order to dry out. If you replace your hull with a plywood bottom and saturate it with epoxy and fiberglass cloth inside and out (camp1 and camp 3), it can be good, however, it's way to much work don't go there. Epoxy is the best thing that ever happened to wood boats. (The traditional/original camp is now throwing what ever the can find at me, beer bottles, tomatoes, ashtray's, etc. just like in the Blues Brothers movie when they played at the honky tonk, hit it fellas, "Rawhide" ah, they are happy again) CPES satuate all your new wood with CPES. CPES is your friend. Keep the good wood (re-fasten). Replace those rotting planks (the whole plank, or at least stager you joints). 5200 in the seems, Re-fasten, bed your screws down with 5200. 5200 is an adhesive first and culk second it is best used in moderation. Now get out on the water and enjoy that boat. We can elaborate more but my wife says were leaving for brunch shortly and
ReplyDeleteI need to hop in the shower. Gotta go, -Kruez-